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Post by neil on Jan 30, 2013 19:22:05 GMT -5
As far as the E-Brake goes, I would need to have an assembly or at least a mechanical drawing with the specs,and all measurements to know for sure if a brake would be feasible on the tibren set-up.
A really easy way to do it would be to use a rotor and cable acctuated caliper for an e-brake used on old jaguar's. Very popular with street rodding. Then use a adjustable e-brake handle/ assembly from a old 5 ton truck like a Chevy 7000 series or the like.
The straight axle would be easier, but then it would not have the clearance for dragging it behind you on the trail.
Brakes generally are not used on trailers with a max GVRW less than 2800 lbs., so that is common.
If you had a axle with electric drum brakes, they could be modified to add a e-brake cable as well.
I don't think Having a brake for parking is neccessary as long as you have wheel chocks and a jack without a wheel on it, but then I don't think I would want to sleep on top of a smaller trailer like that without it being hitched to something anyway. The Brake would help to a point but it would deffinitely depend on the weight balance of the trailer.
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wonk
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Post by wonk on Jan 30, 2013 19:49:46 GMT -5
The problem I see with the Timbren axle is the dimension for "K". You're limited to 6" for the 3500# and 8.5 for the 2000#. A normal trailer wheel's WMS is usually centered. My JK wheel with 35" tire is 7.75" from WMS to inside edge of tire. I figured I wanted at least 2" from tire edge to frame for clearance. I also have not found a price on these axles. I would bet they are considerably higher than the $518.95 price with electric brakes I found on line for a Flexride Rubber Torsion Axle. I haven't checked prices with either of the 2 trailer parts dealers I know of in the Louisville area. Hopefully I can get a deal by buying 2 or 3 as Craig wants me to double the steel order and build him one and Dewaine is interested too. www.trailerpart.com/torsionaxles.htmI've priced steel for my project and it looks like it's going to run me around $400 or so. I want to have less than $3000 in the trailer with the tent. Tires will be the big ticket on the trailer part. I want to match tire size as close as I can to the KM2s on the Jeep. I plan to only carry one spare for both vehicles. I was looking at these tents. www.campinglab.com/carpatecho02.htmlI hear what you're saying about the quality of Ezi-Awn but the $$s are steep, and I figure this tent will not be used for long term camping adventures. I know my wife. We will stay on the trail 1-2 nights then we'll have to hit a hotel for a few. I can live with that.
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Jan 30, 2013 21:43:36 GMT -5
Wonk, Martyn at AT said all the torsion axles they used failed miserably and they still had harmonic vibration issues that caused pieces and parts to vibrate loose, I looked at them too, because they offer a 5x5.5 wheel option...you really think 8.5" is is an issue? I am running a 15"x8" steel wheel with 3.75" back spacing and with a 33"x10.50" tire I was thinking I would have 5" of tire on the inside leaving 3" between the tire and the tub. The price for the ASR2KHDS03 from E-Trailer is $549.95 and the Hub and Srum Assembly is $53.95 (x 2 for each side) www.etrailer.com/p-ASR2KHDS03.htmlBut that is hard to justify when I can get a new straight axle for less than $120. www.trailerpart.com/2ktrailerAxle.htmOne last recomendation he had for my set up was to use a longer leaf spring, like the ones from a Ford Explorer vs. the short ones that are on there now.
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Post by neil on Jan 31, 2013 5:42:06 GMT -5
Seeing Wonk's mention of measurment K got me looking closer at the page and seeing the specs listed for the timbren. I think I know what your getting at wonk, but on their set up the tire will always be moving in the same proportions of up and down only. It won't be moving like a straight axle, so I think that the WMS is plenty. I'm sure you should be able to find a hub with a 5.5 on 5 or even use a adapter which will increase the WMS and you would be able to run the exact same tire as on the jeep.
As far as buying the trailer Brian and figuring for the tire size, you would be correct as long as you factored how far it would compress under the trailers load during use.
I like Wonk's idea of having the same tires as the jeep. If you went with a straight axle you could go wider to clear the trailer and add fenders attached to the axle to cover the tops of the tires. Wider stance and alot more stability. Then the short springs being inbound would work just as well for articulation also.
The longer springs will work nicer for the normal tow, because it will be smoother. You could always add hydraulic shocks tho too. Little resistence on bound and heavy resistence on rebound will smooth out the trailer for the tow.
The options are only limited to the imagination really. Building a trailer to suit your needs is probably easier than buying one and making it suit your needs though.
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wonk
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Post by wonk on Jan 31, 2013 10:17:30 GMT -5
I laid my spare off the JK face down on the floor, laid a 4' level across the back of the tire and came up with that measurement. I have already considered what you're saying about the single plain tire movement with an axle as we're discussing Neil. The Timbren axle is not as high priced as I would have thought. My original plan was to build a trailing arm air bag suspension similar to what AT is doing but incorporating JK unit bearing hubs. I figured these would be bullet proof on a light trailer and would give me compatible parts between the trailer and tow rig. Even supplying an emergency spare hub if you ever busted one on the JK.
I still like the idea of the torsion axle. I know that several leading pop-up camper builders have been using them for years. I realize this is not off road use but would like to know what type of torture AT put their's through. In the article you referenced, they say the biggest problem was with washboard type trails. I don't plan on running Baja at speed with it. But I definitely want reliability so I'm going to do more real world research.
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Jan 31, 2013 23:40:58 GMT -5
So I am currently running 15"x8" steel wheels with 5x4.5 bolt pattern with 33"x12.50" Pro Comp MT's, only because the BFG AT in 33"x10.50" were on national back order and Predator had these laying around and gave them to me to use...I had picked up three Jeep Canyon rims that match the LJ, but the center hub on the military axle was to big...so I still have those and may use them if I swap axles...my TJ is now 5x5.5 so I have to go one or the other...some axle set up also offer 5x5 like a JK, so that would be two easy...another advantage would be that you can carry one spare...either on the Jeep or on the trailer. As for washboard roads, we have 100's of miles of them in Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. the places I would be hauling the trailer too, so it is a concern out here, but with the M-100, there is nothing to vibrate loose...yet. Since I don't have either of your (Neil, Wonk) fabrication skills, or even the equipment to try...one think I like about the Timbren or just a better (new) straight axle for my trailer is I can bolt either on...my only concern with the Timbren is if my trailer frame, which is all angle steel will work or does it need to be beefed up so I have a good surface to bolt too. If I do go with a solid axle adding shocks is part of the plan....I like the idea of having the fenders mounted to the axle, but I am looking at a flat fender that I can mount something too like a table or storage box...I also like the frame/rock slider that would go from the front of the trailer, out to the fender and then to the back of the trailer. Would help protect the body and give me another place to mount things on the outside of the trailer for easier access. www.sierra4x4trailers.com/category/products/trailer-parts/
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Post by neil on Feb 1, 2013 6:13:54 GMT -5
If you only have angle where the axles would be mounted I would assume it being designed that way, that it would be a heavy gauge ange. The mounting point should probably be boxed for the timbren style, but the straight axle with leaf springs shouldn't be an issue figuring that the trailer would have been configured that way originally. The Timbren axles should probably have the angles at the mounting point bridged across the trailer tighing the two together. All the weight is being hung off the side of the mount and not supporting the trailer from directly below the mounting point like leaves. Leaves also mean that the weight is distributed across four mounting points instead of only two. A picture of your trailer would be worth alot at this point....hint
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wonk
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Post by wonk on Feb 1, 2013 22:35:23 GMT -5
Another thing I noticed about the Timbren setup is (if I'm looking at it right) it has a very limited amount of travel. I am now leaning back to just fabbing trailing arms and using the Firestone airbags. Price wise it may actually be cheaper, just more work. Looks like I need to go back to the drawing board.
When I do finally get around to building this thing, I am going to try very hard to do a build write up with pics and materials list.
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Post by neil on Feb 2, 2013 6:47:48 GMT -5
I don't think it is really meant to have alot of travel. They only really have bumpstops in place. All you probably really want, is enough to soak up the harsh bumps. The more travel you have on it, the more critical tire spacing and clearance are(at least when using a straight axle). Not to mention, with there only being one axle and a swivel hitch, the suspension isn't going to have any resistence to work against to have to flex.
You have to figure that a torsion axle probably has less suspension movement than even the timbren. I do think it would be alot more cost effective to build your own set-up, but for those not having that option,the Timbren probably is a very good set-up overall.
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Feb 2, 2013 14:32:03 GMT -5
Here is one photo. Attachments:
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Post by Brian on Feb 2, 2013 14:32:57 GMT -5
Here is another. Attachments:
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Post by neil on Feb 3, 2013 10:05:29 GMT -5
From what I can see there, it looks like it all braced well enough to the angle on the sides off the trailer to handle the mounting. I was acctually expecting to see the angle attached 90 deg from the way it is in the picture. Not across the traile 90 deg, but the angle rotated 90deg. Either way,wether you understand what I was thinking or not ......it should be fine
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wonk
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Post by wonk on Feb 3, 2013 15:42:18 GMT -5
So what did you do to flip it?
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Feb 4, 2013 21:43:59 GMT -5
Wonk, which time? The first flop was on Day 2 of the Rubicon and I just cut a corner to close and it landed on the left side...second flop was when we had caught up to a group of Land Rovers and the trail vehicle cleared the obstacle and then pulled over to the right side of the trail with a lowering of his power windows, a wave of his hand, up goes the power window so his A/C and Mozart won't escape and all my attempts to get his attention to move forward failed and in my impatience I tried to go around him and the trailer ended up on its right side...I forget why I flipped it the first time onto its top, but it happened in slow motion and in hind site if I hadn't stopped it may not have gone all the way over...the one in the photo was the last and final time. Coming down the back side of Cadilac Hill the trail was a boulder strewn mess (thanks to some recent County Maintenance) and Willy (the guy in the photo) got hung up with his MJ which is on either 39" of 40" tires on the left side of the trail so we took what we thought was the easier line to the right, but to avoid the tree in the photo, you came off the ledge and had to turn hard driver and the trailer failed to follow and ended up haging off the edge of the trail. The good news is the Kilby Max Coupler lets the trailer move independent of the Jeep, so it doesn't cause the Jeep to move like if I had been using a pintle that got bound up and the trailer had some leverage...the bad news is the Kilby Max Coupler allows the trailer to move independent of the Jeep and so it will just keep going where as a pintle or even ball hitch may have stopped it. The other nice thing about the Max Coupler is it is quiet, not ball clunking and pintle hitch slap and on the street it is so nice...anyways, so controlling the bounce of the trailer has become my mission, hence the research on axles, shocks, etc.
Neil, I need to crawl under and look at the frame...I think the "L" of the angle goes around the outer edge of the tub and under the floor vs. being boxed, so yes I have a flat surface to work with, but to bolt on the Timbren I will have to run the bolts thru the floor. If I have a small box frame or cross member welded on the bottom I could then weld or bolt the Timbren to that and at the same time add some strength to the trailer and gain and extra 1.5" to 2" of clearance under the fenders.
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Post by neil on Feb 5, 2013 5:57:17 GMT -5
That is what I was leaning towards doing, but didn't know how much you wanted to get done outside of what you could do yourself.
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